?

Log in

No account? Create an account
Capital Adventures
September 24th, 2009
02:12 pm
[User Picture]

[Link]

Previous Entry Share Next Entry
Science fiction: a brief feminist perspective
I was reading - probably rereading - one of Heinlein's novels in my late teens/early 20's when I realised that while I always knew what the female characters were, or often were not, wearing, but not a clue about the male ones. Haven't been able to read Heinlein since.

Bujold, OTOH, is an equal opportunity commentator on fashion. I still reread Bujold.

(16 comments | Leave a comment)

Comments
 
[User Picture]
From:wcg
Date:September 24th, 2009 02:29 am (UTC)
(Link)
Yeah, Lois is good that way.
[User Picture]
From:dianavilliers
Date:September 24th, 2009 02:36 am (UTC)
(Link)
Gratuitious icon post? :D
[User Picture]
From:micheinnz
Date:September 24th, 2009 06:55 am (UTC)
(Link)
Nothin' gratuitous about that icon.
[User Picture]
From:wcg
Date:September 24th, 2009 10:21 am (UTC)
(Link)
I just happened to have that one in the icon pile. Haven't used it in a while.
[User Picture]
From:firesmithsghost
Date:September 24th, 2009 10:34 am (UTC)
(Link)
You have to put it in context. Heinlein's world was that of the early 60's. I think he did pretty well with his female characters considering the mindset of the time.
Photobucket

You know what he's wearing!

[User Picture]
From:dianavilliers
Date:September 24th, 2009 11:14 am (UTC)
(Link)
I mostly have a feeling of lingering regret, that what I have seen cannot be unseen, because Heinlein otherwise had quite a lot of interesting stuff to say.

Edited at 2009-09-24 11:17 am (UTC)
[User Picture]
From:firesmithsghost
Date:September 24th, 2009 01:34 pm (UTC)
(Link)
Look at it like this, and please do not think I'm defending the mindset of the time as moral or good, but 200 years ago neither women nor anyone but white male landowners were allowed to vote.

Collectively, this is a terrible system, but the people within the system were brought up to consider it "the way things always were" even though they had recently deposed the King's rule in their own land.

Individuals change things a little at a time until there is a tipping point where more and more people speak up, and speak out.

Heinlein was part of the voices for change, even as he was a part of the voice for the way things were. Just like Jefferson was part of the American birth, even while he was a slave owner.

We must consider those of the past both flawed and enlightened, and while we look back with perfect vision, we must also consider how it is that we might be forward seeing, and at the same time, chained to the past.

Heinlein was far ahead of his time in so many ways.
[User Picture]
From:dianavilliers
Date:September 24th, 2009 09:44 pm (UTC)
(Link)
Perhaps you don't understand - I was offering a personal commentary on my relationship with a particular, important, body of work. No doubt I could delve back into it as a scholarly exercise, bearing in mind that it is a product of it's time, but that's not my idea of a fun weekend.

200 years ago there were no white male landowners.
[User Picture]
From:firesmithsghost
Date:September 24th, 2009 11:19 pm (UTC)
(Link)
200 years ago there were no white male landowners.

1809?

But I understand what you're trying to say now about RH.

What is your idea of a fun weekend?

[User Picture]
From:dianavilliers
Date:September 25th, 2009 12:01 am (UTC)
(Link)
Although there were settlements of whalers, traders and missionaries from about 1790 onwards, the legal basis for the concept of land ownership by European settlers - or British settlers anyway is shaky at best until the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840.
[User Picture]
From:firesmithsghost
Date:September 25th, 2009 12:00 am (UTC)
(Link)
Ah, you got me on that one. I understand the 200 year thing too now.


You're good.
[User Picture]
From:dianavilliers
Date:September 25th, 2009 12:13 am (UTC)
(Link)
Perspectives - temporal, spatial, all same.
[User Picture]
From:madshutterbug
Date:September 24th, 2009 11:14 am (UTC)
(Link)
I remember that fellow... and he wasn't in a Heinlein story. *G*
[User Picture]
From:madshutterbug
Date:September 24th, 2009 11:14 am (UTC)
(Link)
Hadn't much thought about it; perhaps this is a failing on my part. On the other hand, I am able to recall from several works descriptions of what male characters wore, and when. Usually (I suspect) when Mr. Heinlein felt it to be pertinent to the storyline. Which possibly begs a question. Mr. firesmithsghost is correct, though, put him into context for the times. Though I only recall two stories where Mr. Heinlein mentioned the particular type of outfit Mr. firesmithsghost illustrates.
[User Picture]
From:caelista
Date:September 26th, 2009 04:57 pm (UTC)
(Link)
I read a lot of Heinlein in junior high and high school but over time the stories began to feel more and more like a bunch of male fantasy.
[User Picture]
From:dianavilliers
Date:September 26th, 2009 07:57 pm (UTC)
(Link)
You'll notice that the people commenting on Heinlein are me, you and a couple of blokes.

Edited at 2009-09-26 08:31 pm (UTC)
Powered by LiveJournal.com